India’s got a Carbon Camera Dolly

proaim-camera-slider

[Update] Looks like they got too much attention on the close copied design. This product is gone....

Proaim is the Video camera equipment company based out of India. They've got a ton of shoulder supports, shoulder rigs, matte boxes, follow focus systems, and more. This time around it looks like they're stepping on some toes with their latest product, a Carbon Railed Roller Track Dolly, which is an obvious design knock-off from the big guys in Black and Yellow. In one direction, the rails mount to tripods, and on the flip side, it can be used on the ground. Claims to be an all Aluminum design with rubber coated steel roller bearings and lightweight Carbon rods. Comes with it's own foam cut travel case and weighs under 5lbs. Quality and Customer service? I'm sure you know how dealing with over seas companies go, but you're probably also familiar with why prices would be so darn cheap.

proaim-camera-dolly
proaim-carbon-dolly-case
find-price-button Proaim Carbon Roller Camera Track Dolly

I've seen the real deal up close and wheeled track dollies are a beautiful thing. Especially if you're dealing with harsh dirty environments like sand that can get caught up in other types of linear track systems. Wheeled dollies can also be taken 'off track' for some short rolling camera movements. If you're looking for the original high quality stuff, you can check out the Pegasus Carbon package via the Cinevate website here: http://www.cinevate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=108

Pegasus Linear Tracking System (2/3) from Cinevate on Vimeo.





14 thoughts on “India’s got a Carbon Camera Dolly

  1. Craine

    What's all this hoo-ha about? It's plain and simple economics - there is a huge demand today for camera rigs and rails and if your products are too expensive for anyone other than the Sultan of Brunei to buy them, then cheaper, more generic versions of your products are obviously bound to flood the market. At more than $600 for your rig, you're obviously trying to project a high-end exclusive image for your brand, so I don't see why you should complain if 1 in 10 people go in for a Cinevate and the rest buy these knockoffs.

  2. Matt

    I don't see the price justification on either the cinevate rig or the knockoff. For almost 1300 bucks I would invest the money in something from Kessler. I'm not trying to be an evangelist or anything, but for the same money or just a bit more, you can buy a real slider that supports anything from DSLR to 100lb Cine cameras and has a hand crank. Or if you really want over the top you can spend 1500 and buy a complete shuttle-pod system.

    The reason that the market is flooded with products from Asia and other parts of the still underdeveloped world is demand. I am so tired of all the manufacturers in the DSLR and other Indie film markets crying about the costs of their development and then selling a product for 2-3 times its inherent value. Drop the price a bit and more people will buy your products, thus generating the same or better revenue stream. And I'm also tired of hearing about how niche of a market it is. Everyone and their brother thinks they are a cinematographer with the advent cheaper cameras, thus translating into a massive market for add-on gear. Not to mention the thousands of kids in film school that need somewhat inexpensive rigs, or the young freelancers looking to start in their budding career.

    I completely understand how much it costs to prototype a unit and get all the way to manufacturing, but I think 60k for a prototype with 12 revisions seems a bit bloated. And 12 revisions, seriously, its a couple of blocks of aluminum and some carbon fiber rail. It's not like the concept of a slider is a new one. There isn't much if anything that I see on this these rigs that are different from modern Cine sliders other than the smaller footprint, and ability to break down. If it cost that much, then you are either paying way too much somewhere down the line. If other companies in the US and Canada are able to manufacture superior products with lower price points then your argument is null.

  3. Randy Hnatkowicz

    Dennis,

    I am so sorry to have recently made the mistake of buying ProAim. It was an ebay auction, I wanted to test the 15mm rail system waters, and I didn't have the pocket change to buy better. I didn't notice (until shipping) that it was coming from India, and I then began to search forums about the product. Here I am. I haven't gotten my rig yet, but my apologies are to you for not knowing what I was buying, AND for buying with my wallet instead of my head.

    To reiterate some of your points:
    I come from a machining background. I am a machinist and CAD/CNC designer and programmer. I set out to create my own rail system with my own design. I had some novel new features that I thought might add some flavor to the current offerings. I was set to go!

    I couldn't machine the items I had designed in our shop for conflict of interest factors, so I sent the designs out for prototyping. For several parts, brackets, knobs, etc. on a piece of plastic that was less than ten inches square, I couldn't get below $600 for machining. Keep in mind, these parts were test pieces and only enough to build ONE system. In a production run, the price might come down %20. This is without advertising, stocking, insurances, and the rest you mentioned.

    Ladies and gentlemen, this is a small, niche market and the prices are absolutely justified. If you don't agree, spend 6 years learning the trade, make your own design, and THEN spend nearly $1000 to make your parts (without knowing that they will truly work until the money is spent.)

    Dennis, I am saving up for your stuff. I haven't gotten my rail system from India yet, but I feel guilty already.

    Warmest Regards,
    Randy A. Hnatkowicz

  4. Pingback:

  5. Kelly, clearly you get it...and thanks for your reply. We're in Canada, and we spend 95% of our manufacturing dollars in the US and Canada. Our employees, (direct 12, and at least another 12 at our local machine shop) all work in safe conditions, with fair wages, and in the case of our full-time people have the option of full benefits. The Cinevate team is a treasure in my opinion, and they deserve fair pay for their work. You as our customer, deserve the very best when you deal with us.

    The knock off version we're talking about here, was priced at $150 less than our Pegasus Carbon basic unit right now, and that was for the real thing, supported by Cinevate, who also have a patent pending for the design.

    Xlerate, ask yourself what your response would be to someone stealing your website content, or footage and claim it as their own? What costs did you incur and what was your personal stake in the footage, site content or otherwise? The DMCA permits for an immediate site takedown if you can show someone has stolen content. However if a Chinese or Indian company steals our "content", it's ok for you to support this?

    The Pegasus Carbon system development costs, particularly with at least a dozen refinements, would easily exceed $60000 US. My personal time on that project is in the hundreds of hours..and we're by no means done. We are required to carry liability insurance, which is quite expensive in case a customer sues us. We also carry workplace insurance in case someone here gets hurt. In other words, we support our products and the people who use them. Add on marketing, and most importantly, the staff providing world class support and the costs add up. Most folks want their orders quickly, so we work very hard to keep products in inventory..and this represents a monstrous investment on our part. Now factor our corporate taxes, municipal property taxes and the myriad of other ways we support the infrastructure that we enjoy in North America.

    Innovation is not cheap, and you, our customers are getting products that did not exist in the marketplace previously. We will continue to protect our investment, while treating with the service we've become known for. Cinevate will continue to create outstanding products which in turn increase your ability to generate income, great images, and great stories. We continue to bust our behinds to ensure product pricing is fair. Knowing what goes into pricing, and product development what I can guarantee is that Cinevate's product pricing as it compares to quality cannot be held in question.

    If you want to buy stolen designs, and support that industry, this is your choice of course. Just understand that there is always a consequence to your actions. I live by a simple rule of ethics. If my actions are good for you, good for me, and hurt no one, then chances are that the action is ethical.

    Cheers,
    Dennis Wood (CEO)
    http://www.cinevate.com

  6. Kelly

    @reader

    Well having been a business owner myself i can tell you exactly why American made products are more expensive.. 1. We have to pay no less than minimum wage when we have employees, and when you want good employees you pay more ... 2. There are special taxes placed on any metal work/smelting done in the United States.. so lets say your 4"x4" zinc dicast box that you make cost you 1.00 per unit to make, tack on an additional 40% in government taxes on that. Thats just two reasons as to why things made in the US are more expensive.

    Lets also not forget to mention quality control issues out of China.. which seems to be the worst of them all. No one is forcing you to pay $679.00 but dont B**** and complain when your crap falls apart because you buying something someone else stole the design of, violated intellectual property rights, and screwed a legit business out of its money because they were to lame, to lazy, and to ignorant to come up with something of their own.

    I too wish things were a bit cheaper, I love Cinevate's gear, but all of it is well out of my price range and i most likely wont ever be able to afford it, but perhaps some day i will.

  7. reader

    "What exactly justifies the $679 price tag?
    Materials? Manufacturing costs?"

    2nd'd, what makes cinevates prices so bloated? Small market compensation? Expensive american-made? Greed?

  8. Emm

    Post author

    @xlerate- Apparently they ended all auctions after my post. Too much attention to a similar design.

  9. xlerate

    eBay link shows no results.
    As a HDSLR amateur, I would be interested to test this product out. I think the part that is greatly lost and may catch some companies crying foul is that not everyone has a budget to front nearly 2/3 of their camera cost on a rig or accessory.
    For that (growing everyday) segment, knock-offs are a very viable option.

    @ Dennis,

    This is an opportunity for the CEO of a manufacturing company to clarify & justify their position as to why your product is superior and in what manner.

    What exactly justifies the $679 price tag?
    Materials? Manufacturing costs?

  10. Wow, now that is a blatant knock off. Not only have they copied Cinevate's design, but in their lack of creativity, have copied a dated design. Sigh.

    Dennis Wood (CEO)
    cinevate.com

  11. be carefull with the proaim stuff, i own a few and it's been really hit or miss with them. I'm more of a indie sys fan.

    anyone else ?

    ren

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